Who is going to ref?

[SCWAY Lawson]

Well shiatsu Aztec Dad, I was making an attempt at humor with that reference trying my hand at comedy.  If you know anything about your would know 1 or 2 things.  I was either the JV guy or I was the guy that very seldom,  with 99% certainty did not have to resort to fat girll.  Some important things have been brought up that we should address.

1.  I agree that 3-2 is necessary (If you are running 6 man league finals on 2 mats).  4 on 3 seems good took.  5-4  sounds great.  Can I get a 7-5 hell ya.  Refs don’t need 20 min off every hour.  Again refer back to construction worker reference.

2.  Josh brought up something huge.  We are going charge for additional refs even if we don’t send them.  What?   That’s crazy talk!  Makes refs sound very erogant and over estimate their importance.

I started this busting chops on this thread just to mess with some of my red buddies that read this forum.  They are gentlemen thatI call friends.  A few have called me or even had a beer and laughed at this thread.  The guys I associate with enjoy an extra $50 bucks or $100 now and then and are not trying to extort anyone.

Here are a few things that some refs and average people don’t understand about hosting a tournament.  The cost keep going up and I don’t mean just the refs.  Finding good bracket people is not easy or cheap.  High school trainers are not required to work evens I. Our district and that $30 an hour adds up.  Custodians make time and half on Saturday’s and let Friday nights when a lot of them just walk around collecting cans and bottles.  Districts are charging trans gym rental fees at over $150 an hour to host tournaments.  A great hospitality room is not cheap.  Feeding  refs (that you are paying ) and kids working the tournamet add up.Most announcers don’t work for free.  The average tournament with 16 teams struggled to make ends meet and break even, in others words you can work you a$$ just so kids can wrestle in their own gym.  Awards packages keep getting more expensive as well.  In conclusion, refs are adding to the final nail in the coffin for wrestling.

It’s high school wrestling.  Officiating is a hobby, not a career.  Your Uber driver that you trust with your life driving to the airport makes less.  This proposal will hurts refs more than it helps.

Final thought for fun of random rambling.  When I go to work, I work!  And want to make as much money as I can.  If that mean working break, lunch, teaching an extra class, don’t after school detention are all an option and I have done them all.  If there is a $3000 pool of money for a 32 man tournament on 6 mats it comes out to $333 an official x. 9.  If they cut one guy then 8 make $374, if they cut to 7 they each make $400 and change—May $423 don’t have calculator on me.  So Inask Nr official, would ya rather sit on your buttocks 1/3 of the day and make $333 or work a little harder and make $423?  Easy answer for me!  Be a true independent contractor, let me pick my 7 officials on 6 mats and pay them $500 each instead of send me 9  for 6 mats (which 3 of them will be crappy) and pay them $390 ish

[CCSBork]

Reffing is one of the biggest problems in the sport. These guys work LONG hours at tournaments and they have to deal with people like me who won't cut them any slack when they blow a call. Officials have a HUGE impact on the style that gets wrestled - they can force action or let people skate around without attacking; they can set the tone for a tournament early in the day. The better officials we get, the better the style and the better the results at the national level. The top tier guys deserve every penny they are asking for. The 2nd tier and lower (the 98%) do NOT deserve more $.

The goal of the sport is fair competition with a clear winner and loser. The fact that a coach can't ask a question of an official now does 2 things. 1) It proves that the NHCSA knows there is a huge shortage of qualified refs so they've built them an ivory tower to hide in where they are beyond reproach. You are damn straight, ref, that I am questioning your judgement. Because your judgement lacks the appropriate understanding of the rules. and 2) it prevents refs from growing as officials. They are never wrong so most of them never have to think about how bad they blew a call.

The sport will be better when coaches are allowed to have a civil dialogue with an official again.

[WrestleWithFunk]

Our association does 3 on 2 and schools pay for a 3 on 2 irregardless of how many officials are actually there.  It's been like this for years and coaches don't seem to have an issue with it.  It may be because we have some good officials and coaches and officials generally get along pretty well.

[Illifornia]

What kind of innovative ways have been made to try to recruit new refs?

It’s a real Catch 22. There won’t be refs without getting paid well but at least half are absolute bums.

[BShack]

I can be LOUD, but I do know and get along well with our officials, and I understand their desire to get paid more when they work harder (due to fewer officials) or longer days AND what CIF offered was a slap in the face. The real issue seems to me to be the 3 for 2 when they cant come close to supplying it and the fashion in which they choose to cherry pick the blue book for a pay formula. They don't like the blue books pay structure for tournaments, yet the seized on the dual pay and the 3 for 2 pieces; Unfortunately, this is not an a la carte menu. (not to mention they seem to present the 3 for 2 as gospel when the blue book says 3 for 2 is "Suggested").  Additionally, what is frustrating is the timing and the manner in which this was all presented.

As I see it, hourly pay is fair. Now it just comes down to negotiating a rate. If the officials are worried about the number of officials at an event then supply more (if I can't supply product in my business, I don't get paid and that's just a fact of life). A possible solution (and a better "look") is negotiate a hourly rate per mat (instead of a product that cant be delivered), if there are more officials they get less as they work less hard, if there are fewer officials they get paid more for the heavier load. Pay per hour, per mat may also be the best way for wrestlers, coaches and spectators as well; this will create an incentive for tournament hosts to run things more smoothly as the quicker they run it the more profitable it is and we don't end up with wrestlers coaches and spectators sitting around all day grumbling at the slow pace of the event.

BTW, I like the refs new proposal as it would cost us about $500+ LESS for each of our events, Last year I paid refs $239 (x9 refs and I fed them too) for 6 1/2 hours at our events (started at 9am, finished at 3:30!!! PLEASE let me pay $24 an hour even if it were for more refs I would still save a ton!

[North Section Coach]

The SJ section pays, I believe, $38 an hour. The NC section pays, I believe, $30 an hour.

$24 an hour...would not be a good idea.

[SCWAY Lawson]

hmmmmm,

If you have a two day tournament that goes 2-10 on day 1 and 9-9 on day two for a total of 20 hours you pay each ref $760?    That sounds a little bid high

9 refs on 6 mats X $760=$6840 for officials ,  hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 

Again, biggest problem I think recruiting new refs is they don't get enough dates to make it worth their time.

[CAFan]

hmmmmm,

If you have a two day tournament that goes 2-10 on day 1 and 9-9 on day two for a total of 20 hours you pay each ref $760?    That sounds a little bid high

9 refs on 6 mats X $760=$6840 for officials ,  hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 

Again, biggest problem I think recruiting new refs is they don't get enough dates to make it worth their time.

Not quite. Sac Joaquin doesn't require the 3 on 2. They go up to 5 on 4 and don't add the extra guy until the 5th mat is added for 7 on 5. In your scenario its 8 on 6.

[TheMoomAbides]

Easy solution...

Have Michael Cho predict every match in the state...he'll have a better percentage than had we let refs and coaches argue all season...

Kids can read in the paper the next day what dual scores were, what place they took at a tournament, and who won state...

[North Section Coach]

I hope the tournament that goes 2-10 and then 9-9...changes something in its format.

hmmmmm,

If you have a two day tournament that goes 2-10 on day 1 and 9-9 on day two for a total of 20 hours you pay each ref $760?    That sounds a little bid high

9 refs on 6 mats X $760=$6840 for officials ,  hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm 

Again, biggest problem I think recruiting new refs is they don't get enough dates to make it worth their time.

[SCWAY Lawson]

Northern Coach,

If you live in Southern California that is a short day.  Go to 5-Countiies or Temecula or any of our CIF tournaments and Masters and it is more like weigh-ins at 7am, wrestling at 9am, wrestle til 8-9 because I’m just crappy enough to always have a 220 or Hwt in consolations the last round on Friday night and pick a number between 7pm-midnight and reset in the morning.  I’m sure you have been to Sierra Nevada Classic if you are in the North— 12 hour days for coaches and kids plus.  As a sport we are our own worst enemy, the sport is not fan friendly, coach friendly, kid friendly and we keep doing  the same crap.  Wrestling will Be like horse racing and Track and Field in another 20 years, things kid used to do!

[WIguy]

Well, we held the OCWA's tournament yesterday. We were fortunate to also host the referee clinic for new and improving refs. It was quite nice to have them referee some matches to see what it is really like and to get ready for the upcoming season. Overall, I was pretty impressed with the quality of officiating among the young ones coming into referee. A few of my former wrestlers are giving it a go and they did pretty well overall.

[GDOG]

Best model, pay per hour and per match for tournaments.  Total the matches wrestled on each day (most tournament software does this automatically.  Pay them accordingly.  They still get paid per hour if it is a slow tournament and they have an incentive to help the tournament run quickly and smoothly.  3 on 2 is pretty much required for a small tournament run on 2 mats, anything bigger it is overkill, and it hurts both refs and the sport of wrestling.