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California Wrestling => California Wrestling - General Discussion => Topic started by: TCW on October 12, 2018, 06:25:53 pm

Title: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: TCW on October 12, 2018, 06:25:53 pm
Attached is the published 2019 CIF State Schedule.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: CommonSense on October 13, 2018, 07:41:19 am
If I’m reading the schedule right... on day 2 and day 3 the boys don’t get 2 hours of recovery after weigh ins?  Less than 1.5 hours day 2 and less than 1.75 hours on day 3... might not seem like a big deal to some but for a wrestler making weight for the biggest tourney of the year and is probably his first 3 day weigh in ever... might be nice to give them the full two hours
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: tirapell on October 13, 2018, 07:57:38 am

To say this is less than ideal is the understatement of the year.  Only in California do we think that 9am to 8:30pm with no breaks is an acceptable schedule.


Why no sessions on Friday?  What would be so hard about running the girls (or boys) first and then bringing in the other group for the 2nd half of the day?  Why is it necessary that we all sit in the arena for the whole time?


Just another stupid decision by CIF leadership.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: goldenlace on October 13, 2018, 03:32:15 pm
Not very fan friendly.  You get a kid placing and you are in Bakersfield for 3 days to watch less than a half hour of your kid competing.  I understand combining to save on staff costs, but they could have made this much better by block scheduling.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: CCSRanker on October 13, 2018, 03:43:06 pm
Well, at least just about every competitor can now say, "I made second day at state."

Looks like the powers-at-be REALLY want the boys & girls do go at the same time. Guarantees a fairly packed arena and plenty of revenue over 3 days.

Perhaps there will be a trial-and-error element to all this and adjustments can be made in future years. But there will definitely be some peanuts to pick out from this first one ... and I imagine some of the issues can already be seen.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: Halamela on October 13, 2018, 10:03:25 pm
No disrespect to any wrestler or gender. I already Olán on missing Thursday and highly doubt I will not be driving 4hrs to watch one championship round on a Friday.

Dumb.... will need to rethink our traditional yearly trip with my friends.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: Illifornia on October 13, 2018, 10:21:38 pm
But don’t worry they do it in Track and Swimming so it will be awesome.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: jonnob on October 13, 2018, 11:31:55 pm
This combining of girls and boys keeps getting worse and many already thought it was bad and couldn't be worse.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: Big Earl on October 14, 2018, 07:07:17 am
Stretching this out over three days is getting absurd and becoming expensive (rooms, food, parking, two or three days of used vacation time depending on where you live, etc).  If you have a wrestler that places you will be there from Wednesday evening to Saturday evening.
Having only one round of championship (quarterfinals) on Friday does not strike me as an efficient use of time.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: dmo171 on October 14, 2018, 08:39:05 am
One championship round Friday starts at 3 pm? Upper weights might not wrestle until 5pm :-[
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: TheMoomAbides on October 14, 2018, 09:24:58 am
I’m pretty sure this is a joke.

No way a bunch of educated adults got into a room and decided that on Friday that those remaining in championship rounds wrestle one match, that there are no breaks, and that the boys get less recovery time after weigh ins.

One year the state had an 8 man bracket (mid 80s) and everyone agreed it was stupid. This will be the first and last coed state finals. After schools and parents pay for 4 nights of hotels, wait around for three days to see the finals, and have to buy food Wednesday-Sunday while on the road, they'll have to go back to normal.


Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: Egon on October 14, 2018, 07:00:39 pm
+1....What everyone said above......
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: AMorris on October 14, 2018, 08:53:28 pm
Missing three days of school (with travel) is not good. Even if it is for the state championships, they still have to go to school.

For juniors looking to get into college the after the next year, let alone an elite college, it's already tough to miss Fridays throughout January for two day tournaments.

We really should be considering the academic needs of wrestlers.



Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: WIguy on October 15, 2018, 12:00:53 am
This is as stupid as stupid gets...

I would like to know who the heck was in the meeting.
What the other proposals were...
And which people thought this was the best possible answer???

Then we can go about making sure they are no longer employed in their current role.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: NORCALI on October 15, 2018, 08:20:28 am
Principal Sanchez from Gilroy is on both the CIF Executive Committee and the CIF Federated Council.  A brief synopsis from him would go a long way to explain how we arrived at this

The tournament schedule is not ideal but i get the direction this is going. 

Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: NORCALI on October 15, 2018, 08:32:55 am
This is from August 2018 


Wrestling Community
Everyone is making some great points. Some from the head, some from the heart and others from the gut and many from all three!!....nevertheless I appreciate what everyone has to say. This is what I posted in a separate thread the other day in case you missed it:

Wrestling Community,
I'm so so sorry. I have been super busy as heck getting the 2018-19 school year started and helping the UFC light heavy and heavy weight champ DC  fill out field trip forms and book hotels for the 2018-19 season. 8)
 
The State Tourney will be a 3 day event (Feb. 21-23) and will combine both boys and girls for the first time in wrestling (Track and Field, Swimming and Diving already there, so not really an earth shattering concept)  :D

Here is an overview of what you COULD/LIKELY expect based on our state wrestling advisory committee meeting last Spring:

The event will start on Thursday and conclude on Saturday. Weigh ins Thurs (normal weight allowance for Feb), Fri. +1 Sat. +2

Day 1 will likely be 2 rds of championships and one consolation rd. for boys & 2rds for girls. Boys may have the later start time as the girls and boys will likely start Day one in separate sessions. Weigh in times TBD.

Day 2 will likely be 3 rds of championships and 4 rds of consolation & one less round of both conso/champs for the girls.

Day 3 will likely be just for the medalists (no heartbreaking do or die blood rounds :'( so only place winners will weigh in for Saturday (Like the NCAA D1's). Conso-Quarters, Cons-Semis, medal matches 3, 5, 7.

Championships starting at 4-5pmish. 14 weight classes boys and girls side by side, next weight starting at the conclusion of both matches.  Stage iffy...probably not, but not totally ruling it out. The fans in the first two or three rows of Rabo might appreciate the mat on the floor ;D

Medals likely awarded after every 2 matches (Like Fargo, likely with spotlights with perhaps two sets of podiums, for girls and boys).

Again, just an overview. The CIF staff including the tournament director and assistants are hammering out the details to make it work for Rabobank in terms of logistics including start times, mat configurations, weigh-ins etc. A schedule should be posted soon.

Dr. Marco A. Sanchez, Principal

Gilroy High School Mustangs

"May the Horse be with you"

CCS Executive Committee Member

CIF Executive Committee Member

State Wrestling Advisory Committee Chairman
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: a. wight on October 15, 2018, 10:56:38 am
This seems to be the latest in a string of decisions made by our CIF central office and a few members of our state advisory committee that have been made without gathering input from the coaches community.  It's frustrating, but seems to be the status quo the last few years.

I would encourage everybody to call/write Brian Seymour at the state office - he is in charge of wrestling - bseymour@cifstate.org.  Give him your feedback.  Until they hear from the people this is affecting the most they will keep moving forward with bad decisions.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: TheMoomAbides on October 15, 2018, 12:13:10 pm
This schedule is much better below...what happened?

Also...I can't wait for that one school that finally gets a kid to state, they go to the AD or principal on Monday:

COACH: "Hey, Mr. AD, our 285 made it to state!"

AD: "Great! What time do you leave on Friday?"

COACH: "Oh no, we leave Wednesday. It's three days. We need two hotels for four nights. Plus food. Plus Travel expenses. So like $1500."

AD: "I'm very happy Bobby made it to state. Such a shame he won't go. Now if you excuse me, I'm ordering the football team $20,000 in new equipment." 

This is from August 2018 


Wrestling Community
Everyone is making some great points. Some from the head, some from the heart and others from the gut and many from all three!!....nevertheless I appreciate what everyone has to say. This is what I posted in a separate thread the other day in case you missed it:

Wrestling Community,
I'm so so sorry. I have been super busy as heck getting the 2018-19 school year started and helping the UFC light heavy and heavy weight champ DC  fill out field trip forms and book hotels for the 2018-19 season. 8)
 
The State Tourney will be a 3 day event (Feb. 21-23) and will combine both boys and girls for the first time in wrestling (Track and Field, Swimming and Diving already there, so not really an earth shattering concept)  :D

Here is an overview of what you COULD/LIKELY expect based on our state wrestling advisory committee meeting last Spring:

The event will start on Thursday and conclude on Saturday. Weigh ins Thurs (normal weight allowance for Feb), Fri. +1 Sat. +2

Day 1 will likely be 2 rds of championships and one consolation rd. for boys & 2rds for girls. Boys may have the later start time as the girls and boys will likely start Day one in separate sessions. Weigh in times TBD.

Day 2 will likely be 3 rds of championships and 4 rds of consolation & one less round of both conso/champs for the girls.

Day 3 will likely be just for the medalists (no heartbreaking do or die blood rounds :'( so only place winners will weigh in for Saturday (Like the NCAA D1's). Conso-Quarters, Cons-Semis, medal matches 3, 5, 7.

Championships starting at 4-5pmish. 14 weight classes boys and girls side by side, next weight starting at the conclusion of both matches.  Stage iffy...probably not, but not totally ruling it out. The fans in the first two or three rows of Rabo might appreciate the mat on the floor ;D

Medals likely awarded after every 2 matches (Like Fargo, likely with spotlights with perhaps two sets of podiums, for girls and boys).

Again, just an overview. The CIF staff including the tournament director and assistants are hammering out the details to make it work for Rabobank in terms of logistics including start times, mat configurations, weigh-ins etc. A schedule should be posted soon.

Dr. Marco A. Sanchez, Principal

Gilroy High School Mustangs

"May the Horse be with you"

CCS Executive Committee Member

CIF Executive Committee Member

State Wrestling Advisory Committee Chairman
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: WIguy on October 15, 2018, 02:20:25 pm
Here is what I know... 10 mats is not enough. that is a huge part of the problem.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: sphillips on October 15, 2018, 03:54:31 pm
First attempts at new things always have issues so that is understandable. This schedule stinks though, it is dumb. This hurts the growth of the sport outside the center of the state. This hurts all the student athletes as they are tasked with missing even more school.

Our school is on a trimester system where the trimester is ending right around these postseason weeks so they are likely missing final exams and/or the class days that are used to prepare for final exams. Financially this hurts the families of wrestlers and the budgets of wrestling teams. Wrestling teams with small and medium budgets may have to schedule at least one less travel tournament. Areas without strong wrestling nearby already have to travel all over just to stay competitive so this hurts the upward mobility of teams trying to compete at a state level.

The benefactors are teams close to Bakersfield, which for some reason is now the permanent location of the state tournament (the idea that this is fair due to central location completely ignores the permanent reality of the stresses put on teams further away and the competitive advantage it gives teams more centrally located every single year). Outside teams cannot bring teammates and friends to watch their team compete as they'd have to miss at least two days of school if not three all while finding a nearby hotel they can stay 3-5 nights at, plus transportation there and back.

From experience, hotels in Bakersfield get pretty filled up just with the system we had in the past. Now we are adding about 26-32 girl wrestlers across 14 more weight classes. That is about 400-500 more competitors that have families and additional coaches coming. It will be great to have full stands, but the costs will be heavy for the actual people involved. Some families will be priced out and won't get to see their kids compete at the biggest tournament of their high school wrestling careers. This already happens, but it will just happen more now.

I love what is happening in the Central Valley and the Clovis area as they are raising the bar for wrestling in the state and giving an example of what to work towards and how to do it. However, when the powers that be make decisions that only benefit the top programs that can survive increased costs and negatively impact the programs that are trying to grow, it is a clear statement that there is not a concerted effort to grow the sport at all. This is a clear negative for teams that are 3+ hours away from Bakersfield, for teams on more limited budgets, for coaches who don't necessarily have the ability to take 3-5 days off work to coach, for students who are struggling to maintain the grades they need to achieve what they want academically, for parents who are struggling to make ends meet, for teammates who want to be a part of the biggest moment of the season for their team, and for the sport of wrestling in California in general.

We try to bring young wrestlers to see the state tournament as that helps fuel the goal of going to state, medaling at state, and winning state. That is hard enough to get these guys to miss another Friday of school (again this is Finals time for these guys) to ask them to miss 2-3 days of school is doing a disservice to their educations. The distance between them and qualifying for the state tournament only grows due to this. The exhaustion that sets in from State is also greater, which will further affect students going into the next school week.

Others have already mentioned how the structure of the 3-day schedule is poor too. To expect a regular healthy person to weigh the same over the course of three different days is ridiculous. To shorten the practice week and expect athletes whose weight can fluctuate 5-10 pounds over the course of a normal day (with practice and running/lifting) to maintain a weight class over three days, where they may only wrestle 1-2 matches a day (that one match is usually a 1-2 pound weight loss opportunity for these guys) is stupid and shows a lack of thought. The shortened recovery time makes absolutely no sense for those in consolation who may be wrestling 3-4 times in a long day. A 14-16 hour day of traveling, weighing in, warming up, and competing with no scheduled breaks is idiotic and to stretch that over 2-3 days is negligent.

Also why do they have to even weigh in three times? I thought making high schoolers pee in cups (what a stupid and invasive thing that just makes our sport even less accessible) and "accurately" pinpointing their body fat would eliminate weight cutting. So what is the point of making weight over 2-3 days if weight cutting has been eradicated by hydration? (I know this is a sarcastic point, but the hydration system has done little to curtail weight cutting, and again only benefits the programs that have learned how to game the system, the continuation of multi-day weigh ins only acknowledges that the hydration system is ineffective and useless).

Likely what should be the most exciting and fulfilling moments of the tournament will be seen by even fewer people live in the arena. Teams that are ousted on day 1-2 will go home early due to costs and just being exhausted from the whole undertaking. For those who are there the whole time, we will also have coaches who have been driving, coaching, and watching over kids for 3-4 straight days (again these are 12-16 hour days) making late night Saturday drives that can range from 5-10 hours, due to costs, which is an absolute safety hazard.

The majority of our sports issues are self-inflicted, and the continuation of ineffective and negative policies/systems without any checks or balances whatsoever will continue to limit the positive effects this sport can have on athletes and communities.

There was a 32 man bracket tournament with state quality competition held this weekend that took 6 hours starting at 1:30pm using 8 mats at Clovis West High School. It ran smoothly, the facilities were fine, and the food was a better selection and far cheaper than Rabobank. USAW and SCWAY/NUWAY are putting CIF to shame with how they run big tournaments, and the big decision by CIF this year was to somehow find an even worse way to do this. Great job.

I'd hope as even a consolation for dealing with this crap, we at least can get more coaches passes or interchangeable coaches passes, however that would mean CIF is missing out on more ticket sales so why even bother bringing that up.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: BPG421 on October 15, 2018, 05:12:03 pm
If we really are really doing this for the student athlete and doing everything we can to get them to their peak performance in academics, athletically and mentally then sessions are the only logical decision as sessions give the student  athletes time to-
A. Get get back to the hotel to work on schoolwork that they brought with them because student athletes that are at the top caliber with the schedule as it is way to much time pulled away from school going to tournaments and qualifiers and by the time state comes the student athletes are already over stressed about their classes and grade.
B. Gives the student athlete a chance get to the gym to cut weight because now with the tournament being 3 days means 3 weigh ins
C. Give the student athlete time to get out of the arena and get the proper food and nutrition necessary to help make weight properly with arena laws proper nutrition is impossible if you are being forced to sit in the arena all day.
D. Give the student athletes time to get out of the loud arena and get some rest, whether it is sleep or just silence from the whistles and crowd so they can center themselves and be ready for the next session.

PS In swimming and track having all the different events with all of their heats for both boys and girls the student athlete the families and fans plenty of time to get out of the arena and get food, rest and peace of mind since this is our model and not the NCAA wrestling tournament
 
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: 96Olympian on October 15, 2018, 06:39:34 pm
This is from August 2018 


Wrestling Community
Everyone is making some great points. Some from the head, some from the heart and others from the gut and many from all three!!....nevertheless I appreciate what everyone has to say. This is what I posted in a separate thread the other day in case you missed it:

Wrestling Community,
I'm so so sorry. I have been super busy as heck getting the 2018-19 school year started and helping the UFC light heavy and heavy weight champ DC  fill out field trip forms and book hotels for the 2018-19 season. 8)
 
The State Tourney will be a 3 day event (Feb. 21-23) and will combine both boys and girls for the first time in wrestling (Track and Field, Swimming and Diving already there, so not really an earth shattering concept)  :D

Here is an overview of what you COULD/LIKELY expect based on our state wrestling advisory committee meeting last Spring:

The event will start on Thursday and conclude on Saturday. Weigh ins Thurs (normal weight allowance for Feb), Fri. +1 Sat. +2

Day 1 will likely be 2 rds of championships and one consolation rd. for boys & 2rds for girls. Boys may have the later start time as the girls and boys will likely start Day one in separate sessions. Weigh in times TBD.

Day 2 will likely be 3 rds of championships and 4 rds of consolation & one less round of both conso/champs for the girls.

Day 3 will likely be just for the medalists (no heartbreaking do or die blood rounds :'( so only place winners will weigh in for Saturday (Like the NCAA D1's). Conso-Quarters, Cons-Semis, medal matches 3, 5, 7.

Championships starting at 4-5pmish. 14 weight classes boys and girls side by side, next weight starting at the conclusion of both matches.  Stage iffy...probably not, but not totally ruling it out. The fans in the first two or three rows of Rabo might appreciate the mat on the floor ;D

Medals likely awarded after every 2 matches (Like Fargo, likely with spotlights with perhaps two sets of podiums, for girls and boys).

Again, just an overview. The CIF staff including the tournament director and assistants are hammering out the details to make it work for Rabobank in terms of logistics including start times, mat configurations, weigh-ins etc. A schedule should be posted soon.

Dr. Marco A. Sanchez, Principal

Gilroy High School Mustangs

"May the Horse be with you"

CCS Executive Committee Member

CIF Executive Committee Member

State Wrestling Advisory Committee Chairman

NORCALI
Thanks for reposting my August post. The extra weigh in, loss of classroom time, increase of travel costs, fatigue from extending the event were all expressed during advisory committee meetings. I will be following up with Brian Seymour at CIF this week.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: Scottlawson on October 15, 2018, 06:54:35 pm
If I am reading this correctly, everybody except pigtail 0-2 wrestlers come back on day 2.

Secondly, if you are a quarter finalist you have one match on Friday and if you win you are done................Hmmm, sounds like a really long day.

Finally, does somebody really think it is a good idea to put this co-ed group in the same vicinity/hotels ?

 I can't imagine anything good happening when A) wrestlers are eliminated or B) when they are celebrating
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: dbards on October 15, 2018, 07:46:23 pm
Bakersfield is not the permanent site.  It comes up for bid every 3-5 years and they have been winning the bid.

Our top tournament and they have to weigh in for 3 days the first time in the season or their career.  Are we suppose to have 3 day trny's now to prepare them for State?

Sessions would more logical for the fans and the athletes instead of holding everyone captive in the arena.  Anybody remember when they had the girls exhibitions before the finals at Spanos?  Friday could be just as bad or worse than before.   
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: kastner coach on October 16, 2018, 09:04:05 am
I could see if they had another gym they could host the girls in and combine the finals.  But other than that I dont see a lot of positives here. 
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: Lateral on October 16, 2018, 09:45:47 am
Maybe if they screw it up enough, more people will be attracted to the multiple divisions.

I wish the girls wrestled in the spring...
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: Santos on October 16, 2018, 07:46:18 pm
You guys really messed things up while I was gone... smh
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: SCWAY Lawson on October 17, 2018, 06:10:18 am
A question and a comment from the peanut gallery.

1.  Does Bakersfield really win the bidding process?  I was told that Ontario put in a higher bid but don’t know if that is true or not?

2.  You can’t complain about missing school time if you have already missed about 6-7 Friday’s for tournaments and we all have the cheer team, band, Or dance teams that travel to orlando or Hawaii every year and miss a week of school.  The biggest perk of wrestling in high school besides stealing the other teams stat girls away from them was missing school! 
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: Rescue on October 17, 2018, 09:11:40 am
When the kids are taking AP classes Andy in a block schedule missing one day is like missing two. Missing three and the four prior Friday’s for qualifying tournaments makes it near impossible to keep up. Missing three days in a row for work won’t be easy for most of us either. I’d rather carry it into Sunday.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: InsideTripper89 on October 17, 2018, 09:54:50 am
I just wanna add to the heap of criticism of this tournament. Huge non-season events like Reno WoW, Freakshow, and Fargo, all have sessions, more mats, and even separate gyms to accommodate the multiple age groups, sexes and styles. CIF could have very easily split up Thursday and Friday by sex or even championship/consolation to better accommodate the athletes.

Having boys and girls, semis and consolation all at the same time only on Saturday would have been a lot, but CIF decided to have everyone plow through two marathon days.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: work2improve on October 17, 2018, 02:08:29 pm
Everyone makes great points. I love going to the state meet to coach and to watch, but on Sunday (and sometimes Saturday night) I've had enough and am ready to go home. The fans will be less than thrilled to be there that length of time, and spend that much money. With just boys, it is very difficult to find a hotel once you know you have a qualifier. What will it be like now that we have nearly double the athletes, coaches, and fans? What are attitudes and moods like at the end of it all? Many of us agree that being stuck in a gym for a whole day is one of the challenges to growing wrestling. Why make the events longer and keep people in an arena for 3 days with a schedule that makes it so staying close is a must? Let's hope the organizers are willing to take the time to rethink this schedule and the guts to adjust it THIS YEAR.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: jonnob on October 18, 2018, 12:11:28 am
Let's hope the organizers are willing to take the time to rethink this schedule and the guts to adjust it THIS YEAR.

That takes guts. I just don't think it is in people to swallow that kind of pride and admit a mistake is being made before it is too late.

I haven't seen anyone come here or any other online forum to provide justification that addresses the concerns or even attempts to say what the advantages are to these change for the majority of wrestlers, coaches, parents, fans. It seems what was desired from these changes (girls having an equal stage and coaches at a single location) could have been accomplished using other already proven formats. As far as I can tell, to move forward in one 'perceived' way was accomplished by diminishing the event in so many more ways. Well as the above poster said... It has not yet transpired, there has to be some courage among the organizers to fix this before we get too much further down this path.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: Halamela on October 18, 2018, 10:11:46 pm
Iv never seem female wrestling at the state level.  my experience is at in season tournaments  and all I see is pin after pin. I sure hope the State finals aren’t that way.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: jonnob on October 19, 2018, 02:22:52 am
Iv never seem female wrestling at the state level.  my experience is at in season tournaments  and all I see is pin after pin. I sure hope the State finals aren’t that way.

Last year, there were twenty falls in the girl's medal contests. 14 weight classes, 4 medal finals placing top 8. 54 total matches for a ratio of falls in 37% of these matches. See https://d2o2figo6ddd0g.cloudfront.net/8/1/8f49c8atr5f6du/2018_GWR_Final_Results.pdf

Contrast that to the boys where there were a total of three falls across the same number of matches. Or just over 5%   See: https://d2o2figo6ddd0g.cloudfront.net/y/8/oopk4hcwr02hxe/2018_BWR_Final_Results.pdf

Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: Halamela on October 19, 2018, 10:14:26 am
Iv never seem female wrestling at the state level.  my experience is at in season tournaments  and all I see is pin after pin. I sure hope the State finals aren’t that way.

Last year, there were twenty falls in the girl's medal contests. 14 weight classes, 4 medal finals placing top 8. 54 total matches for a ratio of falls in 37% of these matches. See https://d2o2figo6ddd0g.cloudfront.net/8/1/8f49c8atr5f6du/2018_GWR_Final_Results.pdf

Contrast that to the boys where there were a total of three falls across the same number of matches. Or just over 5%   See: https://d2o2figo6ddd0g.cloudfront.net/y/8/oopk4hcwr02hxe/2018_BWR_Final_Results.pdf

Thank you for proving my point.

I feel like a genius at times.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: GATO on October 19, 2018, 03:01:56 pm
Iv never seem female wrestling at the state level.  my experience is at in season tournaments  and all I see is pin after pin.
So the Girls medal round will go quickly.
 ;D 8) ::)
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: herdroll on October 19, 2018, 11:52:38 pm
Is this the best deal they could cut with the City of Bakersfield?  Start shopping Fresno/Clovis/Stockton (or even rotate in LA every other year) would probably cut a better deal for California's biggest wrestling weekend.  We bring a lot of money.  Should have gotten prices from all these cities.  Know it's central, but most wrestling programs would prefer to travel a little further to not have to have this schedule.  Did Bakersfield tell us we had to throw another event or stretch it out or they were going to boot us?  Something is not right here.  Marco Sanchez is a smart coach, was a great athlete and this isn't all on him obviously, but this business deal they cut doesn't seem as if it was negotiated correctly.....get three bids......believe me, somebody would want to lure us to their town.     

This is about the best wrestlers in the state getting to compete at their best, but it is also about the fans, the wrestlers, the coaches, the parents and friends.  We want to sit and watch the best wrestling in the state continuously.  We don't want to spend all of our time on logistics, hanging around, watching for 2 hours here, going back to the hotel, hang out, come back and organize the kids, walk back, wait in lines.  I'm afraid to say it, but the quality of the wrestling with this poorly planned experiment is going to suffer.  Girls, boys, 3 days, 3 weigh ins, not enough time to be ready.  These kids and coaches already have fueling, warm-up, team meeting and hotel systems......I agree with Tirapelle.  They are high school kids, not college wrestlers.....they need management.....especially on a three day schedule.  This schedule is not fan friendly and you are milking and diluting this important tournament where dreams are made because you want to fill more hotels and prop up women's wrestling.  Women's wrestling has been on a tear and was well on their way on their own.  There is no doubt that kids and coaches are not going to get the most out of their wrestlers because of the chaos.  Sleeping in hotels with all the distractions for three nights?  All these kids are not going to wrestle in college and their dream is to put their best out there....win or lose. This schedule does not do this for them.  Our sport is supposed to be a sport that is above the rest and not perverted by money.  What about the kids and programs who scrape by to make a two day tournament?  Hotels aren't cheap.....Bakersfield drives up the prices when the wrestlers come to town.  Somebody needs to get ahold of Rabobank the bank and tell them what is going on.  They want us there and would put the heat on the city to back down and force us to integrate the girls for the event.  Somehow it seems as if the men's wrestling is now leveraging and financing the women's tournament, why can't we say have it on their own and we'll pay.  Don't think the wrestling community is getting all the information and we should be getting all the information and having input. 
         
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: WIguy on October 20, 2018, 06:53:00 am
We all know the schedule sucks.
It isnt well planned out at all.
There is doing to be a crap ton of down time with no matches going on in the schedule-- why? Becuase as it was state before even 32% of the medal matches for girls end in a pin... the preliminary matches end in pins over 50% of the time-- it not 75% in some weight classes. You have a girl out there like Drury who is going to pin girls in 32 seconds flat all the way through.
It would have made a lot more sense to just run them at the same time, giving the girls 3 or 4 mats and the boys 6 or 7 to start. Even with less than half the mats, the girls will get through their 14 divisions faster/at the same speed than the boys do with 7 mats. 

As soon as the girls round finishes then you give those mats to the boys and speed it up.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: GATO on October 20, 2018, 07:17:17 am
It would have made a lot more sense to just run them at the same time, giving the girls 3 or 4 mats and the boys 6 or 7 to start. Even with less than half the mats, the girls will get through their 14 divisions faster/at the same speed than the boys do with 7 mats. 
As soon as the girls round finishes then you give those mats to the boys and speed it up.
This makes TOOO MUCH SENSE. Share the venue. CIF doesn't think that way.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: Kris on October 20, 2018, 01:57:15 pm
There will be lots of kids missing weight and this could potentially lead to some kids getting sick for trying to make weight 3 days straight, I dont think it’s in the kids best interest to have 3 day weigh ins, defeats the purpose of supposedly trying to protect their safety and health doing the hydration test yet they wanna put the kids though 3 days of weighing in????? How does any of this make sense?? It’s time we stand up to the CIF as parents, fans, coaches, administrators and do something about these stupid decisions that are made behind closed doors with no damm logic behind it.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: jonnob on October 20, 2018, 04:55:43 pm
I still don't see or hear anyone trying to provide an explanation of the benefits that warrant all of the obvious defects. How can we compel someone to address the issues for our young people and their support base?
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: TheMoomAbides on October 20, 2018, 05:31:54 pm
The three weighins are not the issue. Most teams weigh in Thursday for dual and then attend Friday/Saturday tournaments.

I know in the southern section most tournaments have two day weighins. The real issue is that the schedule isn’t friendly for anyone.

Ex: People will buy tickets for day 2 to see their kid win a quarter final and then go back to the hotel, but not until 3-5pm. The whole thing is messed up. Maybe girls and boys should have separate weekends to showcase their talents and not allow either group overshadow the other.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: Aztec on October 21, 2018, 10:48:10 am
I guess I have a different take on this than the majority here. Like they say with legislation and contract negotiations, if both sides leave with a bad taste in their mouth that's a sign of a fair deal.

The fact that so many people here seem to have problems with the format this year makes me think the CIF did a good job balancing all the challenges they face in designing the state tournament.

I'm excited to see how it works. The CIF should definitely be held accountable and make adjustments to improve, but by and large I think they do a great job.

Think about the task the CIF is up against. California is the most populous state and 3rd largest state geographically. Among the 800-900 schools with wrestling there are large numbers of big schools, small schools, urban schools, rural schools, public schools, private schools, charter schools, and collectively our student bodies are more diverse than probably any other state in the country. There are programs that have sufficient resources and programs that don't.

Given all the considerations that CIF must account for, I think they do a good job. If the format doesn't work well this year, they will adjust it in future years. Deliberative bodies allow us all to get involved to be part of the conversation.

They could have left things the way they were, but the preference for CIF as a whole is to combine the boys and girls state tournaments for every sport. Why should wrestling be exempt from this when the boys and girls CIF state (or regional) tournaments are combined for badminton, basketball, cross country, soccer, swimming & diving, track & field, and water polo (northern California)? The exceptions are when boys and girls compete in different seasons (golf, tennis, volleyball), and water polo (southern California). I would love for girls wrestling to be developed enough for it to compete in the fall or spring, but I don't think it's there yet. Will it get there? I believe it will. How soon? I don't know. The sooner the better. In the meantime, I think combining the state tournaments is a good idea.

A 3 day tournament will be harder on the fans and coaches that are there the entire time, but for each individual wrestler I don't think it will be a problem at all. The number of matches won't be increasing so there will be more down time and recovery time between matches for an individual wrestler.

I don't think a 3 day weigh in will be a problem. As noted earlier, this already happens when teams have a Thursday dual and then a Fri/Sat tournament. Plus, if wresters are discouraged from going to a lower weight because they can't handle a 3 day weigh-in, that's a good thing.

For the schedule, I do wish that Championship round 2 for the boys was on Friday and not Thursday. I would have preferred to start with the boys on Thursday, alternate (or mix) the rounds for girls and boys, then end with consolation round 1 (currently scheduled for Friday morning) and not championship round 2.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: tirapell on October 22, 2018, 10:18:53 am
I guess I have a different take on this than the majority here. Like they say with legislation and contract negotiations, if both sides leave with a bad taste in their mouth that's a sign of a fair deal.

The fact that so many people here seem to have problems with the format this year makes me think the CIF did a good job balancing all the challenges they face in designing the state tournament.

I'm excited to see how it works. The CIF should definitely be held accountable and make adjustments to improve, but by and large I think they do a great job.

Think about the task the CIF is up against. California is the most populous state and 3rd largest state geographically. Among the 800-900 schools with wrestling there are large numbers of big schools, small schools, urban schools, rural schools, public schools, private schools, charter schools, and collectively our student bodies are more diverse than probably any other state in the country. There are programs that have sufficient resources and programs that don't.

Given all the considerations that CIF must account for, I think they do a good job. If the format doesn't work well this year, they will adjust it in future years. Deliberative bodies allow us all to get involved to be part of the conversation.

They could have left things the way they were, but the preference for CIF as a whole is to combine the boys and girls state tournaments for every sport. Why should wrestling be exempt from this when the boys and girls CIF state (or regional) tournaments are combined for badminton, basketball, cross country, soccer, swimming & diving, track & field, and water polo (northern California)? The exceptions are when boys and girls compete in different seasons (golf, tennis, volleyball), and water polo (southern California). I would love for girls wrestling to be developed enough for it to compete in the fall or spring, but I don't think it's there yet. Will it get there? I believe it will. How soon? I don't know. The sooner the better. In the meantime, I think combining the state tournaments is a good idea.

A 3 day tournament will be harder on the fans and coaches that are there the entire time, but for each individual wrestler I don't think it will be a problem at all. The number of matches won't be increasing so there will be more down time and recovery time between matches for an individual wrestler.

I don't think a 3 day weigh in will be a problem. As noted earlier, this already happens when teams have a Thursday dual and then a Fri/Sat tournament. Plus, if wresters are discouraged from going to a lower weight because they can't handle a 3 day weigh-in, that's a good thing.

For the schedule, I do wish that Championship round 2 for the boys was on Friday and not Thursday. I would have preferred to start with the boys on Thursday, alternate (or mix) the rounds for girls and boys, then end with consolation round 1 (currently scheduled for Friday morning) and not championship round 2.

Serious question: Have you been to other state championships (as in other states)?  How would you rate ours in all facets outside of the level of competition, since that is obviously out of the control of the organizers?

Because I'll be frank -- I would not describe what we provide as something to aspire to.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: JARMIE on October 22, 2018, 01:31:01 pm
Maybe Aztec would like to pick up the tab for the extra night in Bakersfield:  hotel rooms (which are outrageously expensive), meals, etc...
Can you forward me your credit card to use?

Cliff
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: WIguy on October 22, 2018, 02:03:51 pm
I know that my experience growing up in WI was a 3-day state tournament, but we had tons of time outside the venue. I was never stuck inside the event center for the entire day. It was actually relaxing.

I think if your kid is cutting so hard that making weight 3x is a serious issue that then you as a coach, the kid, and parents have some soul searching to do. A small cut is reasonable, but we all know the 108 who came down from 130 and was not chubby to begin with.. If that's what you need to do to win a HS state medal, there are bigger concerns.

I do think that if CIF is willing to look at how things go this year and make the adjustments for next year then that's what we got...

Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: CenCal Stallions on October 22, 2018, 02:08:57 pm
Are only the placers weighing in on Saturday? I predict that in more than one weight class we will have some ties for 8th and 6th due to wrestlers missing weight. 
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: jonnob on October 22, 2018, 02:49:40 pm
I do think that if CIF is willing to look at how things go this year and make the adjustments for next year then that's what we got...

I am sure they are willing to make adjustments in future years but that means that for at least a year, people are going to suffer needlessly. The thing is that many already see the glaring problems and there is still time to address them but a lack of willingness to address the obvious issues first.

Still, I think it is quite possible if someone were willing to do an AMA style panel and allow parents, coaches, and athletes to get answers to real valid questions we could get a better sense of the strategy and maybe get behind it or open the eyes of the advisory committee of what people really care about. We want to believe that changes are well intended but the feeling from my coaching peers is that to accomplish one or two small narrow-minded agendas, the well understood good parts of the CA state tournament are being abandoned to accommodate those changes. No one I know is convinced that this is good overall for anyone.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: WIguy on October 24, 2018, 07:43:49 am
we see it the same way....
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: Aztec on October 24, 2018, 07:51:47 am
Serious question: Have you been to other state championships (as in other states)?  How would you rate ours in all facets outside of the level of competition, since that is obviously out of the control of the organizers?

Because I'll be frank -- I would not describe what we provide as something to aspire to.

I attended the Arizona state tournament several times when I lived there. This was all pre-2002 (when I moved to California). I don't know how that tournament differs now compared to what I experienced, but I'd rate California superior in venue, format, organization, and polish of the event (quality of announcers, etc). Attending the Arizona state tournament was great but coming to California was like going from the minor leagues to the major leagues. I have a great time attending Rancho Cucamonga Quakes games. But it's not like going to a Dodgers game. And I don't mean the level of competition.

If you had to pick another state tournament that we should aspire to be like, what state would you choose? Setting aside competition, what do they do that we should emulate to make our tournament better? I want our state tournament to be better too.

In the LA section, they have a combined City Finals and I think it works really well. The state tournament is obviously a much bigger event, but I think it has the potential to work just as well.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: Aztec on October 24, 2018, 08:02:03 am
Maybe Aztec would like to pick up the tab for the extra night in Bakersfield:  hotel rooms (which are outrageously expensive), meals, etc...
Can you forward me your credit card to use?

Cliff

A 3 day state tournament will definitely add to the cost of traveling to the state tournament. For the programs that have been attending both the girls and boys state tournaments, it will be less of an impact because they'll be traveling to one 3 day event instead of two 2 day events.




Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: JARMIE on October 24, 2018, 09:53:59 am
not to mention the extra time out of class for both boys and girls.... and coaches that are also teachers or walk ons that have to take time off of their regular job...
Guess you will be volunteering to tutor the kids and catch them up on lost class time/lectures/labs in additions to picking up the extra expenses. 
The way Bakersfield has been gouging us for years with higher than normal rates and 3 day minimum stays (probably 4 day min now), there is no benefit I can see about having the events concurrently.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: Aliso Coach on October 24, 2018, 12:30:50 pm
not to mention the extra time out of class for both boys and girls.... and coaches that are also teachers or walk ons that have to take time off of their regular job...
Guess you will be volunteering to tutor the kids and catch them up on lost class time/lectures/labs in additions to picking up the extra expenses. 
The way Bakersfield has been gouging us for years with higher than normal rates and 3 day minimum stays (probably 4 day min now), there is no benefit I can see about having the events concurrently.

Ironically, I anticipated this consolidation of the two state meets and reserved rooms at several hotels for Wed to Sunday.  Want to guess what the rates for Wed night were before the hotels learned the meet was going to 3 days?  Roughly half of what they are asking for now... Glad i locked those in before they could gouge me for another $300.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: CenCal Stallions on October 24, 2018, 01:28:22 pm
not to mention the extra time out of class for both boys and girls.... and coaches that are also teachers or walk ons that have to take time off of their regular job...
Guess you will be volunteering to tutor the kids and catch them up on lost class time/lectures/labs in additions to picking up the extra expenses. 
The way Bakersfield has been gouging us for years with higher than normal rates and 3 day minimum stays (probably 4 day min now), there is no benefit I can see about having the events concurrently.

Ironically, I anticipated this consolidation of the two state meets and reserved rooms at several hotels for Wed to Sunday.  Want to guess what the rates for Wed night were before the hotels learned the meet was going to 3 days?  Roughly half of what they are asking for now... Glad i locked those in before they could gouge me for another $300.


I did this before during state weekend, got rooms very early at a low rate off of a website. When I got to the hotel they denied my confirmation number and denied my room, told me to call the police if I wanted. Their argument was that "they told the website not to sale that weekend but they did anyway"... We ended up in Bellflower i think its called in a room under construction...
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: BetterMove on October 24, 2018, 03:45:14 pm
NORCALI
Thanks for reposting my August post. The extra weigh in, loss of classroom time, increase of travel costs, fatigue from extending the event were all expressed during advisory committee meetings. I will be following up with Brian Seymour at CIF this week.
[/quote]

Good Doctor,

Thanks, I believe/think I see what you and the Committee are trying to accomplish: Equality amongst the boys and girls wrestlers, packed arena every day (i.e "growing" the sport, what many on here advocated, although they had a different vision on how to accomplish it) not eliminating anyone on the first day, getting out earlier on Saturday. I like a few others that already posted, your original schedule seemed better, although someone would have to go home day one. As far as the three day weigh ins, Moomabides and a few others addressed that with the Thursday night Duals and Friday/ Saturday morning weigh ins. If my son were still competing in high school, i would definitely miss a tournament or maybe even two at the end of they year and go though that process and as the WI guy said, if a coach has their kid trying to hold a cut for thee days, that's on them and their wrestler should probably be going up a weight, this three day weigh ins, might add another layer of "safety" for the wrestlers to wrestler at an appropriate weight. As far as missing three days of school, I agree with many, that it will be tough on the student athletes, that being said, many of those complaining about it now, were also advocating for a three day multi-divisional state tournament. So there you go, either way, you're going to get complaints. Good luck in your meeting :) BTW, the ONE thing that I would do, is make sure the boys get the full two hour recovery time after weigh ins, imagine the outcry, if the girls got shortchanged on their recovery time ;)
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: herdroll on October 25, 2018, 05:45:24 pm
Would be nice to get the names of the folks that made these decisions and get to ask questions of them....don't think it is too much to ask.  Two, who in the wrestling community were aloud to have input outside of the CIF Committee?  Still time to abandon this......they need to breathe and revisit this with more input.  Academics, pocket books, performance, experience for the fans and all the other shenanigans with the boys/girls factor suffers.  The fallout of how this will effect athletes and their programs is going to be very bad.  "Redream 19" movement.  The wrestling community has obviously weighed in and we are the ones that put all the time, money, effort to give these kids and the friends/families that have supported them their best shot after wrestling 8, 10, 12 years of their lives to get to this tournament.  "Redream 19".  Let's let the coaches of California vote on plans if there must be one to "go forward".  Every team gets a vote.  Let's start there. "Redream 19"       
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: Halamela on October 25, 2018, 09:06:57 pm
I like Redream19...catchy.

Took me a few seconds to get it.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: herdroll on October 25, 2018, 10:03:07 pm
"ReDream 19" is better....."All in."  ReDream 19 works. 
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: The Sleeper on October 26, 2018, 08:09:32 am
The CIF state tournament USED TO BE a major league tournament. It just went backwards. All the hard work to make it the premiere state championship tournament just went down to the minor league level.

To also say that if the format doesn't work well this year, then adjust it for future years is absurd. The uncertainty of how this will play out is evident. The extra money spent, loss of work, increased school absences, the extra "relaxation time" is all a waste. You kidding me "relaxation time"! I want my kid to be in class if he isn't wrestling.

Why ruin it for those seniors (both boys and girls)who have not been in the parade of champions or for that matter have not wrestled on the stage all to themselves. The state tournament ends no differently then the NCAA finals, two wrestlers on the stage battling it out. No one else to watch but those two. Not 4 division championship matches, or four medal matches, just two wrestlers whom have rightfully earned that spotlight. Let the girls have their own spotlight and the boys theirs. That's "fair and equal".

There is still time to change the format...


CIF has done a fabulous job making the state tournament what it has been. Don't ruin this illustrious event for the sake of an "experiment".


"Redream 19".
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: The Sleeper on October 26, 2018, 11:52:31 am
Obviously, some people do not understand the importance of obtaining a “state medal”. Weight cutting is part of wrestling and if you have to cut weight you will. You hope that a coach and parent are doing it safely and responsibly. Three days of weight cutting though for a high school wrestler at a state meet is asking for problems. The kids are going to cut to a weight they feel they are the best at competitively. Whether it’s for 2,3 or 4 days. It’s just sad that CIF is asking 14, 15 and 16 year olds to do this. But they will do it because they want the state championship.

For those that haven’t been through the process, a little bit of information.... the first thing a college coach is looking at is the success of the wrestler. The first question is “Where did you place at state?” Placing in California is a big thing for college recruitment. Obviously the other question is what are your grades like. And of course the wrestlers success at national tournaments.

Downplaying a state medal tells me someone does not understand what high school wrestlers are really trying to accomplish. It’s not just a state medal. It’s what comes with getting a state medal that matters.


Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: DrakeHS on October 26, 2018, 05:28:54 pm
Say we get our first ever qualifier and presuming we want to enjoy the whole experience, this is a 5 day venture. Leave Wednesday, experience the whole tournament, come back Sunday.

I work a regular job. Plus section duals 3 days, sectional tournament 3 days, I'll more or less exhaust my vacation. Let alone the expenses. I don't think CIF can assume all coaches attending are teachers right?

Some common sense surely wasn't applied to scheduling this tournament.

Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: Halamela on October 26, 2018, 08:43:06 pm
Some people might think Take it as a joke.

But my trips to Cabo San Lukas don’t last this.

Shoot even Vegas will be quicker, arrive Friday and home Sunday.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: SCWAY Lawson on October 27, 2018, 04:05:25 pm
Random thoughts from the peanut gallery:

1.  Go back to the 3rd post by Adam T and it sums up the stupidly of the California CIF.  This schedule does not even come close to doing anything correct in the real world.  Everybody loves the World Challenge and getting in and out with sessions and nobody liked the Freakshow hanging out two full days.  There is a reason California is number 46th in the country in education because the same educated idiots that came up with his schedule also run our schools and districts.  When you don’t have to answer to your constituates you don’t have to make change, we, the wrestling community are voiceless because CIF realizes we have no choice and will have to do what they come up with.  This is really, really dumb!

2.  If I’m reading the schedule correctly boys weigh-in on Thursday at 7am but don’t wrestle til 1.  Interesting, maybe we won’t see the first round loses because of a kid cutting his weight wrong because they will have more time to hydrate.  Oops, those loses will come in the 9am Semi Finals on saturday AM —again, dumb, dumb, dumb.  Best round of the tournament will  happen when kids have the least amount of time to hydrate.  Interesting.

3.  Day 2 the boys will weigh in at 7am and wrestle wrestle at 3pm.  Can I suggest a drive to lake Isabella after weigh ins or drive up and eat lunch on the Kern.  Long day for parents of the studs to watch 6 minutes.  LAME!

4.  Did  bettermove use the words “Good Doctor”?  Priceless!

5.  Remember when everyone though girls wrestling was going to save the sport?  How did that work out for the 10 Olympic Weights.

6.  Someone mentioned only medal winners coming back on Saturday?  I would personally  have a hard time getting motivated to wrestle in a 5th place or 7th place match.  Could be important in the team race if a kid misses weight and they take out all of his points.

7.  I don’t think a 3 day event is a bad idea.  I don’t think that adding the girls is a bad idea either but the schedule they came up with is stupid.

8.  Stop complaining about missing school.  I only remember one great lesson in class from one teacher in high school.  I have a ton of great memories from high school wrestling tournaments and road trips.  As a matter of fact, I’m pretty sure I took the day off to go fishing before we left for the state meet.  Missing school was one of the biggest perks of wrestling on high school.



Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: dmo171 on October 27, 2018, 05:34:42 pm
 #3 +1
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: Halamela on October 27, 2018, 06:04:07 pm

8.  Stop complaining about missing school.  I only remember one great lesson in class from one teacher in high school.  I have a ton of great memories from high school wrestling tournaments and road trips.  As a matter of fact, I’m pretty sure I took the day off to go fishing before we left for the state meet.  Missing school was one of the biggest perks of wrestling on high school.
[/quote]

I grew with just enough but not more—-so I remember making $20 last all tournament weekend in late 90s.  We didn’t have a booster club to help with snacks. I had one singlet and warm up suit for the whole season. Memories are just great.

The best part were the crappy busses we would ride in. So much fun leaving school early to hang out with the wrestling teammates.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: ljp1946 on October 27, 2018, 11:40:08 pm
Bill & I went to the CIF meeting on the North/ South State Tournament YEARS AGO-BAD idea But they did it Any How- NEVER DID IT AGAIN LOL THOSE WHO DO NOT LEARN FROM HISTORY ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT> BAD IDEA for Wrestling 2019.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: herdroll on November 08, 2018, 11:16:32 am
So how did CIF benefit from ok'ing this tournament?  $$$ from City of Bakersfield?  Savings in cost to run two tournaments simultaneously?  How else did CIF benefit?  If CIF saved $20,000 to make this move and the wrestling community is going to give us a million or more of our dollars the extra day, this is not right.  It is a consensus amongst nearly everyone in the boys high school wrestling community that this was not in the interest of the boy/men wrestlers, the athlete's sleep after another night in the hotel, young men and women at the same tournament and the problems after they are "out" and are seniors....there will be many stories about what happens with this factor, their fans, schooling (missing 3 days of school), people's wallets (many programs and parents have a hard time paying for two days (add another $400/$500 per kid/family, and on and on....how did this benefit the CIF besides saving on consolidation of costs?  Anybody?
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: North Section Coach on November 08, 2018, 02:50:11 pm
This thread is like a "debate" about politics on Twitter. It exists in a vacuum, and nobody in charge of policy/decision-making cares about the feedback contained within it, and all of us drive ourselves crazy carrying on the discussion that will, inevitably, lead to nothing being changed and a lot of us getting even more angry than we were before joining the discussion.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: herdroll on November 08, 2018, 07:39:03 pm
I respectfully disagree with the post before this.  People are going to do something about this.  The fire will get really hot after this state tournament.  These coaches are going to do something about it.  We also have kids that are trying to get very good grades to get into good colleges....missing three days of calculus?  Some kids, coaches and parents can roll in Wednesday after school that are nearby, but kids in SD, Imperial Valley North Coast, North Section are 8, 10, 12, 14 hours away......got to get up early on Wednesday.  What about those working parents that will lose another pay for a day?  People are watching this thread......TCW is watched by all the wrestling community.  Thank goodness for what TCW does or we couldn't air this out. The wrestling community will come onto the mat ready to go OT to get their input in to figure this out right after the state tournament.     
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: Halamela on November 08, 2018, 10:10:08 pm
I respectfully disagree with the post before this.  People are going to do something about this.  The fire will get really hot after this state tournament.  These coaches are going to do something about it.  We also have kids that are trying to get very good grades to get into good colleges....missing three days of calculus?  Some kids, coaches and parents can roll in Wednesday after school that are nearby, but kids in SD, Imperial Valley North Coast, North Section are 8, 10, 12, 14 hours away......got to get up early on Wednesday.  What about those working parents that will lose another pay for a day?  People are watching this thread......TCW is watched by all the wrestling community.  Thank goodness for what TCW does or we couldn't air this out. The wrestling community will come onto the mat ready to go OT to get their input in to figure this out right after the state tournament.     

Correct. Spoke to my group that goes every year and we all agreed we will NOT attend Thursday. As I have listed before, we go to Bakersfield to support wrestling 1st and by default we support the Bakersfield business. We do not have a problem with that.

But we can not justify going up Thursday- family responsibly comes first.

But we are definitely saddened we will miss some great opening round matches that is irreplacable.


Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: Aztec on November 09, 2018, 02:25:27 pm
Why should wrestling be exempt from a combined state tournament when CIF combines the state tournament for every other sport when boys and girls compete in the same season? Basketball, cross country, soccer, swimming & diving, and rack & field all have combined state tournaments. Why should wrestling be exempt from this?

It would be fantastic if boys and girls wrestling were in different seasons like golf and tennis, but we're not there yet. I hope we get there. In the meantime, if the CIF clearly wants girls and boys state tournaments to be combined, why should wrestling be exempt when all those other sports are not?

The major issues brought up in this thread apply to the combined state tournaments for other sports. They deal with it. Why can't we?

In any sport, if the student-athlete makes it all the way to the state meet, they are going to miss some school due to the travel and competition schedule. I have no idea if wrestling forces students to miss a more school than other sports, but I would imagine that it's about the same for all the sports. Does anyone know how much time away from school is required for other sports when the individual or team makes it all the way to the state meet?

I do think the schedule of the state meet can be improved, but I support the general idea of a 3-day combined state tournament. They better have two raised mats for the finals though! There's room inside Rabobank for that.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: Halamela on November 09, 2018, 04:42:56 pm
Well the young men in the finals we still have the the majority of the spotlight on them.

Someone Posted data about female vs male length of matches. And most female matches end in a pin.

Okok. I’m trying to be funny.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: Aliso Coach on November 09, 2018, 11:12:36 pm
Why should wrestling be exempt from a combined state tournament when CIF combines the state tournament for every other sport when boys and girls compete in the same season? Basketball, cross country, soccer, swimming & diving, and rack & field all have combined state tournaments. Why should wrestling be exempt from this?

It would be fantastic if boys and girls wrestling were in different seasons like golf and tennis, but we're not there yet. I hope we get there. In the meantime, if the CIF clearly wants girls and boys state tournaments to be combined, why should wrestling be exempt when all those other sports are not?

The major issues brought up in this thread apply to the combined state tournaments for other sports. They deal with it. Why can't we?

In any sport, if the student-athlete makes it all the way to the state meet, they are going to miss some school due to the travel and competition schedule. I have no idea if wrestling forces students to miss a more school than other sports, but I would imagine that it's about the same for all the sports. Does anyone know how much time away from school is required for other sports when the individual or team makes it all the way to the state meet?

I do think the schedule of the state meet can be improved, but I support the general idea of a 3-day combined state tournament. They better have two raised mats for the finals though! There's room inside Rabobank for that.

You can’t really compare the state meets of other sports to wrestling.  Ever been to the cross country state finals?  My team was there every year.  You get up on Saturday morning, eat a little, warm-up, then run a race with your team in your division.  That is it.  No having to maintain weight for multiple days, no multiple matches spread over three days with hours spread between them (mostly spent trying to stay comfortable or get some rest in the chairs), etc.  Soccer and the team sports are similar- you show up for your championship games then you go home.  Track does have two days of competition with a prelims and finals but those times are firmly set and we aren’t asking anything of those athletes but to put on their shoes and compete.  Between their races, they can go eat or have a good time to their hearts content with very little affecting their performance.

It’s apples to oranges but I am sure CIF doesn’t bother to look at it that way.  They want to fit every sport into the same type of box, even when it doesn’t fit.

Reality is- we are wasting our time trying to discuss something they won’t change (at least this year).  I personally think a three day meet is ok provided you split things up.  Have the girls start on Thursday and have their finals on Friday night in a solo setting. Start the boys on Friday and mix in some rounds and have them finish on Saturday in a solo setting.  Save the programs a few dollars in travel expenses by not keeping everyone there for 4 nights.  Give each group their time to shine one the center platform.  Maybe there will be less attendees for the girls but how is that any different from any previous year?  But, this makes sense so obviously it won’t happen. 

What I really want to see is who actually makes these decisions. If we have names, then we can target them with emails and maybe get something done rather than coming here and spinning our wheels.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: herdroll on November 10, 2018, 12:02:40 pm
Aliso is onto something.  That is called a compromise.....doable, but work would need to be done.  Good start on a solution.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: 96Olympian on November 10, 2018, 03:56:52 pm
This thread is like a "debate" about politics on Twitter. It exists in a vacuum, and nobody in charge of policy/decision-making cares about the feedback contained within it, and all of us drive ourselves crazy carrying on the discussion that will, inevitably, lead to nothing being changed and a lot of us getting even more angry than we were before joining the discussion.

Wrestling Community,
If this combined boys/girls 3-day schedule is a complete and utter disaster and epic failure (which we can spend another thread on debating what disaster/failure would look like) then let your section commissioners and CIF know during (vis a vi the head table) and after the event (e-mail)! Otherwise, if you are a coach, focus on getting your athletes ready for what is going to be one of the most competitive seasons in a while........the individual rankings are going to be NAILS. Team race will be too.... Peace!

Preseason State Rankings

 

Release date 106, 113, 120 – November 12, 2018

Release date 126, 132, 138 – November 13, 2018

Release date 145, 152, 160 – November 14, 2018

Release date 170, 182, 195 – November 15, 2018

Release date 220, 285, Team – November 16, 2018
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: 96Olympian on November 10, 2018, 04:35:19 pm
Random thoughts from the peanut gallery:

1.  Go back to the 3rd post by Adam T and it sums up the stupidly of the California CIF.  This schedule does not even come close to doing anything correct in the real world.  Everybody loves the World Challenge and getting in and out with sessions and nobody liked the Freakshow hanging out two full days.  There is a reason California is number 46th in the country in education because the same educated idiots that came up with his schedule also run our schools and districts.  When you don’t have to answer to your constituates you don’t have to make change, we, the wrestling community are voiceless because CIF realizes we have no choice and will have to do what they come up with.  This is really, really dumb!

2.  If I’m reading the schedule correctly boys weigh-in on Thursday at 7am but don’t wrestle til 1.  Interesting, maybe we won’t see the first round loses because of a kid cutting his weight wrong because they will have more time to hydrate.  Oops, those loses will come in the 9am Semi Finals on saturday AM —again, dumb, dumb, dumb.  Best round of the tournament will  happen when kids have the least amount of time to hydrate.  Interesting.

3.  Day 2 the boys will weigh in at 7am and wrestle wrestle at 3pm.  Can I suggest a drive to lake Isabella after weigh ins or drive up and eat lunch on the Kern.  Long day for parents of the studs to watch 6 minutes.  LAME!

4.  Did  bettermove use the words “Good Doctor”?  Priceless!

5.  Remember when everyone though girls wrestling was going to save the sport?  How did that work out for the 10 Olympic Weights.

6.  Someone mentioned only medal winners coming back on Saturday?  I would personally  have a hard time getting motivated to wrestle in a 5th place or 7th place match.  Could be important in the team race if a kid misses weight and they take out all of his points.

7.  I don’t think a 3 day event is a bad idea.  I don’t think that adding the girls is a bad idea either but the schedule they came up with is stupid.

8.  Stop complaining about missing school.  I only remember one great lesson in class from one teacher in high school.  I have a ton of great memories from high school wrestling tournaments and road trips.  As a matter of fact, I’m pretty sure I took the day off to go fishing before we left for the state meet.  Missing school was one of the biggest perks of wrestling on high school.

C 8) 8) L Crazy Lawson
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: herdroll on November 10, 2018, 04:38:54 pm
We can do that GR Olympian, sure, but people were getting over their anger and just started coming up with possible compromises/solutions.  Wrestling community will be as ready as they can be for the tournament what they are given.  They just don't want to be given what they are going to get and are not going to like it afterwards.  Don't think trying to slow some productive thoughts is the answer.  People are starting to throw out solutions now and the ball is now rolling.  Why wait until after to evolve what has been given to the rank and file wrestling community.  Think it's great you are an Olympian and very well respected I might ad, but IMHO I personally was just liking how some solutions on a compromise were coming out.   
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: a. wight on November 13, 2018, 03:36:23 pm
I find this suggestion fairly laughable.  After having placed a call to the Section Ass. Commissioner in our section, it was clear their input was not solicited on this change either.  After speaking to our representative to the Wrestling Advisory Board, he helped make it clear that he was "informed" of this decision, rather than having a say, therefore never having had a chance to represent the interests of the coaches in his section.   And, the last time we tried to bring a concern to the "head table," Mr. Paradise dismissed us and treated us like we were bothering him, rather than being invited to have a conversation.   

This was a decision made in isolation by the state CIF office and a select few.  Now, you want us to complain to our section staffs and commissioners, who weren't involved in the process.  I'm pretty sure our section knows how we feel, but they feel powerless to do anything about it, as do those of us at the ground level.  Instead it would be refreshing to hear how we can have a better process to discuss these types of potential changes to our system, before decisions like this are made. 


This thread is like a "debate" about politics on Twitter. It exists in a vacuum, and nobody in charge of policy/decision-making cares about the feedback contained within it, and all of us drive ourselves crazy carrying on the discussion that will, inevitably, lead to nothing being changed and a lot of us getting even more angry than we were before joining the discussion.

Wrestling Community,
If this combined boys/girls 3-day schedule is a complete and utter disaster and epic failure (which we can spend another thread on debating what disaster/failure would look like) then let your section commissioners and CIF know during (vis a vi the head table) and after the event (e-mail)! Otherwise, if you are a coach, focus on getting your athletes ready for what is going to be one of the most competitive seasons in a while........the individual rankings are going to be NAILS. Team race will be too.... Peace!

Preseason State Rankings

 

Release date 106, 113, 120 – November 12, 2018

Release date 126, 132, 138 – November 13, 2018

Release date 145, 152, 160 – November 14, 2018

Release date 170, 182, 195 – November 15, 2018

Release date 220, 285, Team – November 16, 2018
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: goldenlace on November 14, 2018, 03:36:17 am
96 greco - What was the date and venue this schedule was decided, and what is the names of those in the room at the time?  This might clear up a lot of the smoke and mirrors and give some accountability and an avenue to be educated.  If the wrestling community cant be afforded information like this, we are in some real trouble.
Title: Re: 2019 CIF State Wrestling Championships Schedule
Post by: AMorris on November 14, 2018, 01:48:10 pm
This is absolutely true, grades matter. My son was on the bubble of being accepted to a pretty good college. It's not always a done deal after January. They called his high school to check up on his grades during the winter semester, he was able to take some actions that improved his profile, and it paid off. Many of the elite colleges will check up on kids, even after they've been accepted. You simply cannot afford to write off the second half of senior year.

When I think back to the many many excellent high school wrestlers I've seen in California, there are too few of them who move on to academically high level colleges. This many days off from school is not good. Missing Wed-Fri is a big hit for kids taking multiple AP classes, competing with the other kids on the robotics team, etc.


I respectfully disagree with the post before this.  People are going to do something about this.  The fire will get really hot after this state tournament.  These coaches are going to do something about it.  We also have kids that are trying to get very good grades to get into good colleges....missing three days of calculus?  Some kids, coaches and parents can roll in Wednesday after school that are nearby, but kids in SD, Imperial Valley North Coast, North Section are 8, 10, 12, 14 hours away......got to get up early on Wednesday.  What about those working parents that will lose another pay for a day?  People are watching this thread......TCW is watched by all the wrestling community.  Thank goodness for what TCW does or we couldn't air this out. The wrestling community will come onto the mat ready to go OT to get their input in to figure this out right after the state tournament.